Newsvine
  • Welcome
  • Help
  • Report Bug
  • Conversation Tracker
  • Your Column
  • Replies
  • Friends
Type Comments Since You Last CheckedArticle Source Last Checked Stop Tracking All Clear Tracking All
Advertise | AdChoices
Log In | Register
Close the Login Panel
Existing users log in below. New users please register for a free account.

New Users:

Existing Users:

E-Mail:
Password:
Forgot Password?
Please enter the e-mail address or domain name you registered with:
E-Mail/Domain:
Back to Login
Log Out
  • Top News
  • Local News
  • World
  • U.S.
  • Sports
  • Politics
  • Tech
  • Entertainment
  • Science
  • Business
  • Health
  • Odd News
  • More
    • Arts
    • Education
    • Environment
    • Fashion
    • History
    • Home & Garden
    • Not News
    • Religion
    • Travel
Visit David C. Kanz's column >>

DAVID C. KANZ

Home Page
A Recovering Former Fundamentalist.....
Articles Posted: 22  Links Seeded: 338
Member Since: 9/2008  Last Seen: 5/11/2012

What is Newsvine?

Updated continuously by citizens like you, Newsvine is an instant reflection of what the world is talking about at any given moment.

Get a Free Account
Help
Fun Stuff
  • Your Clippings
  • Leaderboard
  • E-Mail Alerts
  • Top of the Vine
  • Newsvine Live
  • Newsvine Archives
  • The Greenhouse
  • Recommended Articles
  • Wall of Vineness
Put a Seed Newsvine link on your own site

Who Watches While the US Invades Pakistan and Syria?

Seeded on Mon Nov 3, 2008 11:17 AM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: t r u t h o u t
world-news, war, pakistan, terrorism, dick-cheney, al-qaida, international-law, military-industrial-complex, us-invasion, syra, feorge-w-bush
Seeded by David C. Kanz
Advertise | AdChoices

Has anyone in Washington noticed? The new US raids into Pakistan and Syria are, as was the invasion of Iraq, in blatant violation of international law. But who's keeping track of this sort of thing? Certainly not senior US officials, who apparently have weighed the negative consequences of illegal military operations against their perceived benefits and opted in favor of the latter.

  • Enjoy this article? Help vote it up the 'Vine.

Published to:

  • David C. Kanz's Column, All of Newsvine
  • Groups: none
  • Regions: none
  • Public Discussion (17)
David C. Kanz

This has got to stop.

  • 5 votes
Reply#1 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 11:18 AM EST
LaeF1

It is fair to ask if anyone in Washington has noticed of late that Chapter VII of the UN Charter clearly establishes the rules for one country attacking another, rules to which this country is a signatory.

The rules don't apply to the U.S.A. (duh).

It all changed on Sept. 11, when someone else actually attacked US!  Now all our military actions are justified.  It's us vs. them, good vs. evil.  And God is on our side!!  trust us!!!  The US GOV'T never lies!!

(clipped!)

  • 2 votes
Reply#2 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 11:59 AM EST
David C. Kanz

Well, technically, "government" never actually does wrong or exceeds its specifically designated and limited powers....

It is the people who occupy the offices of government that do wrong or exceed authority and limited powers....

Bush and Cheney and their respective staff peronsonnel who had a direct hand in this need to be held accountable---I know I  have been saying it for years...

But I won't stop saying it until something is done about it.

  • 2 votes
#2.1 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:17 PM EST
LaeF1

Consider for a moment that it's not just Bush and Cheney... and consider that their 'respective staff' is all the elected officials, democrats and republicans, who are complicit in their actions.  The people should be holding them ALL accountable.  Bush can do whatever he wants because 'impeachment is off the table'.

The government is supposed to represent the people.

  • 2 votes
#2.2 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 12:49 PM EST
David C. Kanz

I agree LaeF1---TOTALLY---

There is enough accountability to go around---those that were deceived need to take the lead in correcting it...and creating accountability on our behalf!

  • 2 votes
#2.3 - Mon Nov 3, 2008 4:38 PM EST
Reply
krishna-167929

I wonder if this sort of thing will stop after Obama is elected?

  • 3 votes
Reply#3 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 12:32 AM EST
David C. Kanz

It must....

  • 1 vote
#3.1 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 8:52 AM EST
LaeF1

one can only *HOPE*

  • 2 votes
#3.2 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 1:26 PM EST
Reply
Mac-295039

We have requested support from both Syria as well as Pakistan. Neither country has made any attempts to quell, reduce, or attempt to secure foreign fighters, known terrorist, or insurgent wanna-be, from moving freely across their borders. In Syria, we have governmental officials providing passports, travel arrangements, money, safe houses, and known assistances for any jihadists to move across the Syrian border into Iraq. Syria the country that created the Ba'ath Party, has ties with Sunni insurgents and former Saddam supporters is not likely to stop the flow of weapons, money, men, and explosives into Iraq. Syrian military units and police border units have opened fire on US military service members who were posted near or around the border. Even back in 2004 we were getting reports from Marine units stationed past Airfield H5 near the Syrian/Iraq border that they were getting shot at by Syrian law enforcement persons who crossed the border well into known Iraqi land and started to take shots on US Marines moving on the highways.

Let's not just assume that there is a person just sending troops into Syria and Pakistan for the hell of it. You think that Pakistan is going to slow down or attempt to secure the Northern areas near the Afghanistan borders? You think Pakistan is going to go into known hostile areas of taliban controlled enclaves and remove Taliban leaders or equipment? Pakistan has made an open agreement with known terrorist cells as well as the Taliban that will not allow Pakistan military action against those held areas so long as the Taliban do not engage in terrorist activities in Pakistan. Insurgents receive training and support from sympathetic Pakistan ISI intelligence agents and senior military commanders. Those religious schools that operate without any over-sight and screening are promoting the idea of the Taliban as well as supporting Al Qadia operations. The US military commanders have asked for support in blocking known routes of the insurgents into Pakistan. Pakistan does nothing. But the flow of support moves freely and insurgents move back and forth into secure areas being claimed as "untouchable" by the Pakistan administration and under the protection of the Pakistan government. So actions conducted by US military planners are not seeking armed conflict with Syria or Pakistan. But you can't just sit there as well and wait for the next attack against US troops and allow these insurgents to move without reprecussions.

I do not agree with the entire "Bush doctrine", but I do believe that many senior military commanders are attempting to avoid the same mistakes we observed in Vietnam. We were not allowed to venture into Cambodia, Laos, or North Vietnam for a period of time. Weapons, arms, ammunition, and men moved freely from safe havens across the border and carry attacks against US troops, then slip back over the border where they knew they could not be attacked. I think this falls into the same mind-set.

Obama winning the Presidential election will not stop terrorism or terrorist attacks.

  • 3 votes
Reply#4 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 3:46 PM EST
David C. Kanz

So---Mac---you are FOR illegal US military activity in Pakistan and Syria in violation of international law?

  • 2 votes
#4.1 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:30 PM EST
Mac-295039

@David

I am not for illegal military operations, but I bet I can find information that supports the idea that while Pakistan is screaming "bloody murder" for a Predator attack this October, it was also happy to have Al Qadia deputy chief of operations Khallid Habib taken out in the tribal area of South Wairistan.

Pakistan like many other Middle Eastern countries seek to promote a hands off approach allowing US troops to act against fellow Muslims. But the inability of Pakistan to actually go after these popular based terrorist cells is one main reason they can't publicly make statements against the Taliban. But if the US takes them out I think that they are not going to shed a bucket of tears either. They (Pakistan) needs US military aid, money, and political support. Although a large portion of their money also comes from Saudi Arabia.

I am not an international law "expert" but my focus is the Middle Eastern region. Terrorism is not going to stop just because Obama gets the seat to the White House. I can assure you that the international groups of various splinter cells, Al Qadia, and foreign supported terrorist groups will still be seeking to conduct offensive attacks against the US and US civilians.

  • 3 votes
#4.2 - Tue Nov 4, 2008 4:45 PM EST
LaeF1

I am not an international law "expert" but my focus is the Middle Eastern region.

well then stop misspelling Al Qaeda.  that will make it easier to research.  ;-)

ps. that's a wiki link so if you want to continue spelling it as you have been you can probably just go in and change it for everyone.

    #4.3 - Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:44 PM EST
    Mac-295039

    @LaeF1:

    I have seen it written as Al Qadia, Al Qaeda, or just in Arabic as "The Base". But I'll re-write the notes to the adjusted spelling. Thanks for the information and comments.

      #4.4 - Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:55 AM EST
      Reply
      worldknightboy

      I wonder if the title of this article is misleading. There is no invasion by America into Pakistan and Syria. There have been very limited strikes and very small-scale, localized insertions of special ops types, for very limited duration, but nothing even remotely approaching an 'invasion'!

      • 3 votes
      Reply#5 - Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:07 PM EST
      David C. Kanz

      Whether with one or a hundred----and it is probably closer now to the latter amount including all of the CIA operations we are learning about....

      • 2 votes
      #5.1 - Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:48 PM EST
      LaeF1

      i would say that small scale strikes and missile attacks and special ops with limited duration IS DEFINITELY approaching an invasion.  exactly that, in fact.

      And i say ANY military attacks across the Pakistani or Syrian borders are a clear violation of international law.

      Even though it was revealed today that Rumsfeld signed something stating it was ok for the US to attack Al Qaeda anywhere, regardless of what country they are in.  This assumes that US intelligence always knows where they are (which they don't) and that US int'l war policy somehow supersedes int'l policy and law...

      • 2 votes
      #5.2 - Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:37 PM EST
      worldknightboy

      And I say- good luck in court, whatever court this international law you contend as so violated will be adjudicated in!

      • 2 votes
      #5.3 - Mon Nov 10, 2008 7:51 PM EST
      Reply
      Leave a Comment:
      You're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead.
      You're in XHTML Mode. If you prefer, you can use Easy Mode instead.
      (XHTML tags allowed - a,b,blockquote,br,code,dd,dl,dt,del,em,h2,h3,h4,i,ins,li,ol,p,pre,q,strong,ul)
      Newsvine Privacy Statement
      As a new user, you may notice a few temporary content restrictions. Click here for more info.
      FUN STUFF:
      • Leaderboard |
      • E-Mail Alerts |
      • Top of the Vine |
      • Newsvine Live |
      • Newsvine Archives |
      • The Greenhouse |
      COMPANY STUFF:
      • Code of Honor |
      • Company Info |
      • Contact Us |
      • Jobs |
      • User Agreement |
      • Privacy Policy |
      • About our ads
      LEGAL STUFF:
      • © 2005-2012 Newsvine, Inc. |
      • Newsvine® is a registered trademark of Newsvine, Inc. |
      • Newsvine is a property of msnbc.com